Data over Mythology. Applying the GOAT debate rules / thresholds created by NBA fans to players of all eras. Long strings are at @mythnixstrings
Joined July 2019
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MJ fans don’t understand that Jordan didn’t beat elite teams—ever.
He got snuffed.
Meanwhile, for MJ fans to accept Lebron as the GOAT, Lebron has to win multiple SERIES against teams MJ couldn’t beat once.
If these columns were reversed, we know how MJ fans would argue.
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Every time LeBron is on this list, he was playing the #1 ranked defense in the league that year…
Jun 11
Same chart for the conference/division finals.
Some of the best playoff scoring stretches we've ever seen.
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The “GOAT” Wemby:
1 FGA in the last 8:50
3 missed free throws in the 4th
Brunson dragged his balls in his face on a 3 with 2:21 left
A no-show on the final shot
Lost a 29 POINT LEAD
Lost a 20 POINT 4TH QUARTER lead
All vs a 53 win team, as the FAVORITE.
Overrated FRAUD.
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Michael Jordan gets no blame for losing a 7 game series to Detroit in 1990, when he had a championship lineup around him.
He had 3 bad games in the series (games 1, 2 and 5). In game 7, he scored nothing in the 23-6 run that gave Detroit a 15 point lead at the half. Invisible.
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I went back to look at how Jordan ACTUALLY did on shots in the last 5 seconds of games.
He did a little above average, but nothing revolutionary.
From 1987-1990, he went 3-19.
His best seasons are the ones that we have data for, so everyone assumes he did that all the time.
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Michael Jordan fans like to argue that MJ “built” the Bulls, and that he quietly accepted every move the Bulls made, because he thought he could win with anyone.
In reality, MJ disagreed with EVERYTHING the Bulls were doing.
They won despite MJ’s view of his “supporting cast.”
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Tim Legler: “Both teams were gassed at the end of this game.”
WHEN did NBA players start getting gassed? The Spurs are the 2nd youngest team in the Finals in 50 years.
I’ve been told over and over that players DON’T GET TIRED.
THIS didn’t cause fatigue. What’s changed?
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Scott Van Pelt tonight:
“Did fatigue play a role in that end game sequence?” “Yes”
PTI to Legler today:
“Was Wemby fatigued?”
WTF is this? Lebron plays the entire 2nd half in 8 of his last 10 playoff games in 2011, and NOBODY says a word about fatigue. He’s just criticized.
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After you watch the end of this game 2 in the Finals, be sure to go back to 1998 and watch “peak basketball” that was so “physical” and so much “better” and “smarter” than today’s basketball.
Why would anyone watch basketball today? It’s disgusting compared to THIS film.
May 29
First 3 minutes of the 1998 Game 6 NBA Finals
Basketball used to be so pure 🔥
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Jordan fans love to bring up 1986 versus Boston as proof that Jordan was the “GOAT.”
Except…Boston didn’t try to aggressively defend Jordan.
They didn’t start bringing out bigs to double, like LeBron saw in 2007 and 2011, until game 3.
MJ scored 19 points.
Is that good?
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MJ fans conveniently forget he was considered the meal ticket for the NBA. The media supported MJ because it meant feeding their paychecks.
We have a year we can cleanly see that media voting bias: 1995.
How bad was it? MJ nearly made All NBA playing 17 games, with a 49% TS%.
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The Kobe fan base loves to take shots at other players (Lebron, Curry, SGA, etc), while constantly saying that Kobe was the best player in the league for a decade.
Let’s evaluate Kobe under the Lebron expectations.
From 2003-2011, Kobe had ONE Hall of Fame level Finals.
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Michael Jordan fans argue that Jordan won in 1998 “alone.”
Pippen was the expected FMVP through four games. He played in every game, averaging 39 MPG.
In game 6, with Pippen out of the game, Jordan was -14.
How are you “winning alone” if you’re -14 when you’re alone?
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Things Wemby just did that Michael Jordan NEVER did:
Beat a team with a greater than 8 SRS (11 for OKC)
Make a Finals before age 28
Win a Game 7 on the road
Win a Conference Finals as an underdog
Lead an inexperienced team to a Finals
Lebron did them. This is what GOATs do.
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Ok, everyone. You just saw a crazy fourth quarter in today’s NBA.
Now go back and immediately watch the first 3 minutes of the 1998 Finals.
Because THAT was real basketball, right?
And the Jazz would DESTROY the Spurs and OKC, right?
May 29
First 3 minutes of the 1998 Game 6 NBA Finals
Basketball used to be so pure 🔥
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MJ fans try to keep the calendar in 2011, all to avoid the FACT that LeBron peaked higher from 2016-2018.
Instead of asking “when did Jordan have a series as bad as 2011,” ask “when did Jordan have a series as GOOD as the 2016 Finals?”
Lebron had the higher peak.
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