Normally I try to focus my energy on what I want to see more of, but as time goes on, it seems like this is part of a larger pattern of hostile engagement from Ivy. In the past, Iāve defended Ivy from unwarranted criticism and assumptions about her being bad faith and a liar. I always try to assume the best of people when it comes to public speech. But this is the 4th piece sheās published purely devoted to attacking Vibecamp and the tangential communities, and I feel like someone needs to publicly say that this isnāt ok and actually address the points made.
Her article, point by point, with rebuttals:
The bad things RMN has done:
-one stealthing incident. This, according to the women it happened to, was handled as well as it could have been, including community support, a change in policies, a ban, and an offering of legal support. What exactly is Ivy suggesting they should have done differently? Itās a bad faith argument, and one that rests on the implication that they handled it poorly, which backfired once the people actually affected spoke up.
-One incident of someone being dropped and getting a concussion. I donāt understand what the implication is here. If anyone falls down youāre a bad community? Did RMN not have the proper wet floor signs? Just a sloppy broad brush stroke that falls apart when you look at it closely.
-Sonia Josephs tweet. I donāt want to get into this too much, as itās not really central to Ivyās case, and thereās a lot I donāt know about Silicon Valley culture and politics. It hints at much, but as far as I can tell the main thrust thatās spelled out is that participating in CNC events furthers your career, and that thatās misogynistic. This might be true, but either way, it doesnāt say anything about the goodness or badness of these events. Thereās a lot of good-to-neutral things that it would suck to be pressured/obligated into, like vanilla sex or reading old books. Not to mention business is built on relationships, and if you donāt like how some people form those relationships, thereās not much anyone can really do.
-AI people are into CNC. Which again, is only bad if CNC is bad, or if this particular CNC party is bad, which Ivy makes a poor case for.
The VC2 decompression event:
-Ivy was sexually assaulted at VC1 and rejected unwanted advances/drugs at VC2. Sexual assault is bad. I donāt know how Vibecamp handled this, as they donāt make those things public, but I remember everybody who was there listened to Ivy and attempted to hold space for her as she recounted this, and suggested policy changes that could prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future. I think the moment that soured it all for Ivy is when someone pointed out some flaws in the proposed policy changes.
-Ivy is upset that someone repeated her story without naming her. Strange, considering she did the same thing to someone who spoke up at that event. She said she was āinterrupted, and talked overā while failing to mention that her interrupter had tears in her eyes, explicitly saying that the interruption was part of a larger problem of silencing women. Looks like that blogpost and tweet have been deleted, so maybe Ivyās changed her mind on this policy. But surely, if youāre going to have made the mistake of following chatham house rules, you can understand why someone in the exact same point in time and space would do the same? Quoting without revealing the name isnāt going against any community norm. I was there, you didnāt ask anyone not to do that. And frankly, based on my QT it seems like you named her in your article, although I canāt double check that because itās deleted, and I donāt remember.
-Eneaz wrote trauma junkie. At the time I said it was mean and assumed the worst about people, which is still the case. Frankly though, I could say the same about this article. From the outside, it seems like you two donāt like each other and write public substacks back and forth trying to personally attack each other. I donāt think thatās anyoneās business but you twoās. Furthermore, itās bad faith to assign the personal vendetta/failings of one person to their group as a whole. It doesnāt make sense when you do it to RMN, and it wouldnāt make sense if I used it to attack whatever groups youāre a part of.
The lesswrong Vassar allegations:
-Allegedly, Vassar assaulted women, which if true is bad.
-āSomeone well-placed to assess estimated that 15-20% of the women there are not actually all that into itā Iām skeptical about the ability of a third party to assess the enjoyment of an activity where the point is pretending to not enjoy it. And even if we believe in this ability, I think itās more important to believe people when they tell you things about themselves, even when it seems like it isnāt true. People have a right to write the stories of their lives, and itās the job of close friends and family to help co-interpret that for them, not a third party who has to break it down into percentages, and certainly not the people hearing about the estimation thirdhand. But even if we ignore that, and assume this person is right: as I said earlier, the issue with this dynamic isnāt the event itself, itās the incentives around it. Not that I really think thereās anything you can do about old boyās clubs, or their alleged kinkier successors. Business is built on relationships, and you canāt really control how people form relationships. Nor do you make any suggestions on how to fix this problem, aside from everyone agreeing on how bad it is.
-Susan Folwerās blog, which as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with RMN or anybody involved, aside from being located in Silicon Valley. Itās possible that it is, and Ivy just failed to mention it. To me, it just looks like Hasty Generalizations.
-āBoth Vibecamp and Red Means No have played the āweāre just event hostsā card when difficult situations arise.ā is a line that seems like an actual serious concern. Or it would be, if all those stories of RMN taking a lot of responsibility and putting a lot of effort into sexual assault hadnāt come out. Sadly, what seems like it would be the actual meat and potatoes of the article ends there, already half disproved at least.
-Claims of other women with complaints and fears about this topic. Iām sure they exist, but what are we supposed to do with it if you wonāt even tell us what the complaints are?
Ivy attempts to paint us a picture with disproved details, distantly related blogposts, and flawed reasoning. It seems like she sees herself as a whistleblower, minus the documents or insider knowledge. Now, if this was just a bad blogpost I would keep on scrolling, but to me, this seems like a repeated pattern of attack against Vibecamp and RMN. She doesnāt seem to care about the quality of her article at all, only who she can target with it. I donāt like the idea of having someone hovering the edges of the community, searching for anything she can emotionally misinterpret into ammunition for a 4th attack piece, each of which re-uses the few pieces of actual information sheās acquired from its predecessors.
Not that thereās anything I or anyone can really do about it. She certainly doesnāt seem interested in coming to any community events, and even if she were, Iām not sure that advocating for her to be banned is the right thing to do. She would probably enjoy being banned, so she can say āI was sexually assaulted and spoke outā¦and then I was banned.ā
I donāt like getting into drama, but I wrote all this because I donāt think this is going away. I think the record needs to be straightened out. Thereās enough evidence to call a spade a spade: Ivyās agenda is ātpot delenda est,ā facts of the matter be damned. You may disagree and thatās fine; people can make up their own minds after hearing both cases. And my case is that Ivy writes bad-faith articles to attack communities she hates for bad reasons, and no one needs to take that seriously.