Alistair Croll (
@acroll) is the co-author of the best-selling book Lean Analytics, and a longtime product manager, entrepreneur, and startup advisor. He also profoundly changed my life over a decade ago by convincing me to start a company, funding it, and helping us exit to Airbnb. More recently, Alistar has been running events such as O’Reilly’s Strata, Cloud Connect, FWD50, and Startupfest, and is about to release a book with co-author Emily Ross that I'm very excited about: Just Evil Enough: The Subversive Marketing Handbook.
In our conversation, we discuss:
🔸 The role of subversive marketing strategies in most startups’ growth
🔸 11 specific subversive tactics
🔸 Examples of companies like Netflix, Airbnb, and Tesla using subversive tactics early on
🔸 A framework for scanning your market for opportunities
🔸 The importance of finding your “zero-day marketing exploit”
🔸 How to apply these tactics ethically without actually being evil
🔸 Much more
Listen now 👇
- YouTube:
youtu.be/ywkwUvJlFn0
- Spotify:
open.spotify.com/episode/5As…
- Apple:
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas…
Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting the podcast:
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@WorkOS — Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs:
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@_hex_tech — Helping teams ask and answer data questions by working together:
hex.tech/lenny
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@TrustVanta — Automate compliance. Simplify security:
vanta.com/lenny
Some key takeaways:
1. Most startups focus too much on product features and not enough on distribution and go-to-market strategy. To succeed, you need to find an “unfair advantage” in how you capture attention and turn it into profitable demand. This is what Alistair and Emily call “just evil enough.”
2. Stop relying on generic growth hacks. Instead, adopt a mindset focused on “zero-day” marketing exploits—innovative, subversive tactics that are only now possible. Look for unconventional methods to change the game in your favor.
3. Encourage your team to embrace “disagreeable” thinking, where you challenge the status quo rather than following the herd. For example, aim for your ideas to elicit at least 50% disapproval—this can be a great indicator that you’re pushing boundaries and generating true interest. If everyone loves your idea, it might be too safe.
4. Alistair outlines 11 key tactics to grab people’s attention:
a. Turning bugs into features (e.g. Salesforce positioning their limited feature set as simplicity)
b. Buyer upgrade (e.g. selling to insurance companies instead of city councils for bridge inspections)
c. Access (e.g. Bumble’s founder leveraging her sorority connections for initial growth)
d. Bait and switch (e.g. Tupperware using dinner parties to sell products in postwar America)
e. Combination (e.g. Kraft combining powdered cheese with macaroni or 1-800 Mattress including mattress removal with a mattress purchase)
f. Arbitrage (e.g. early social media growth hacks using API data)
g. Aggregation (e.g. Busbud aggregating bus schedules to become the default destination)
h. Reframing (e.g. Tom’s of Maine positioning toothpaste as natural/unfluoridated)
i. Regulation (e.g. organ donor opt-out vs. opt-in policies in Germany vs. Austria)
j. Misappropriation (e.g. Netflix using the postal service as a high-latency network)
k. Sliding the window (e.g. normalizing previously taboo topics or behaviors)
5. To apply these tactics:
a. Spend time understanding your industry’s system and status quo
b. Temporarily think like a “supervillain” to brainstorm novel approaches
c. Use techniques like pre-mortems, counterfactuals, and embracing absurdity
d. Look for ways to change your value chain or industry dynamics