1/2 "Either, what [Grusch] is saying is partially true or entirely true, or...we have some really smart, educated people with high clearances and very important positions in our government, who are crazy, and are leading us on a goose chase." ~Senator Marco Rubio ~~~ I'm working on a transcript that includes my opinions on the various things Rubio said in the Khalil @NewsNation interview. That will be on my blog. In the meantime, I'm sharing this transcript of the original news segment, plus the full Rubio interview that was released later. Entin hadn't seen the full interview when this first aired so that explains some of his questions. @ddeanjohnson also tweeted out a transcript of the full Rubio interview. Mine is lightly edited for clarity. ~~~~~ Brian Entin: "Hey everybody, I'm @BrianEntin, filling in for Ashley this week. There is a lot of breaking news tonight. It turned into a busy, busy night. A major update when it comes to UF[O] whistleblower, David Grusch. You remember him, we first broke the news here on NewsNation, his claims that the U.S. government has a secret UFO program and actually has non-human craft and its possession. Well, tonight, there is a massive development, a bombshell. Senator @marcorubio on the Intel Committee says other whistleblowers, with firsthand knowledge, have also come forward. We've got the senator's exclusive interview with NewsNation's @JoeKhalilTV. That is coming up in just a minute. (A minute later...) Entin: I want to get to the explosive claims, three weeks ago, when former high-level intelligence official, David Grusch, said the U.S. government is secretly in possession of alien spacecraft and the bodies of their pilots. Just hours ago, we finally got Rubio on camera and what he said...it is big news. Senator Rubio says Grusch is not the only high-level government official to come forward with these kinds of claims. There are others, he says. Let me say that again: Grusch, who you saw on our air, is not the only one to come forward, according to Rubio. Others have come forward, in secret, to Congress. NewsNation's Washington correspondent, Joe Khalil, just wrapped up an interview with Rubio a little while ago. He joins me live now. All right, Joe, this is quite a development. I know you've been trying to track down Rubio for quite some time. I don't think any of us expected him to say something this explosive. Break it down for us. Joe Khalil: "Yeah, it was a big deal, Brian. And so, let's start off with the fact that Grusch himself, self-admittedly, is a second-hand witness bringing these claims forward, right? So he is not in the room seeing these alleged aircraft, he's not involved with these alleged programs that exist. But he was talking to people who have seen those things. He was getting information from people who were in those programs. Well, tonight, Senator Rubio said that he, the Senator, has heard from those firsthand-account witnesses to some of these claims. And I tried to press him and ask him in a number of different ways: Okay, the people who are saying that they have seen these things up close and personal, spacecraft, and others, you have heard from those people who've made those claims? And here's what the Senator told us. I'm gonna play a big chunk of our exchange. ~~~Remember, I'm including the full transcript~~~ Joe Khalil: I would like to begin with the whistleblower story, David Grusch, whom I know you are familiar with. I'm just wondering, generally....yes or no, do you find his allegations that he has made, credible? Senator Marco Rubio: While I think more importantly, the Inspector General has referred it to Congress. We have a law for whistleblowers. So they go to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, and then they have an obligation. If they find it to be an urgent concern - a credible and urgent concern - their job is to refer it to Congress, and they have done so. So, obviously... There isn't anything formal we need to do. Although, I know we have spoken to [Grusch] and are familiar with much of his testimony, which, of course, we're not, at this moment, because it's a whistleblower investigation...we really can't talk about it in detail. Although he has talked about it quite in detail. And the gist of any whistleblower testimony is that the intelligence agencies are doing something wrong. And in his case - and this has been publicly reported - the argument is that what they're doing wrong is, they are not appropriately disclosing to Congress, money that has been spent on programs and the like. Now, I wanna caution everybody that, under the law, you have to have firsthand knowledge. That doesn't mean the person isn't telling the truth, but it simply means that, technically, as a technicality, if you don't have firsthand knowledge of what you are claiming? So I can say that someone told me that someone did something wrong, and I have good reason to believe it because I heard it from a lot of different people and they all are saying the same thing. But unless you yourself have firsthand knowledge of it, sometimes you get caught in a technicality. That doesn't mean that the things he is saying are not useful to Congress. And I would put it to people this way: There are one of two things here [that] are true. Either, what [Grusch] is saying is partially true or entirely true, or...we have some really smart, educated people with high clearances and very important positions in our government, who are crazy, and are leading us on a goose chase. One of these two things is true. Either what they're telling us is true, or we've got some people in important positions that are doing this, for some reason. So, either one is a problem. We gotta figure this out, we can't ignore it. Khalil: Well the reason his (Grusch) story's getting so much attention is because the nature of his allegations are that the government maintains we have a UAP retrieval program that, in its possession, has multiple aircraft that are not made by humans. I mean, what are we to make of that, the public that has to hear that? Rubio: Well, two things. Either, it's not true. And I'm not claiming it is and I'm not besmirching him or anybody else because we passed a law to make it possible for people like this to come forward. Remember, a lot of these people signed these non-disclosure agreements and they're fearful of ever commenting because they think it's punishable by death. So we passed a law that basically said, "You can come forward and talk to Congress or the UAP Task Force." So, I don't wanna say that anybody is not telling the truth. I understand that this is something that sounds fantastic and out of the ordinary. I would just say, if it's even partially true, then somebody's broken the law, there's been some violations, because these things have to be disclosed to Congress. I mean Congress has been paying for it and probably for a long time. I am not in a position to tell you, right now, whether it's true or not true. But [what] I am in a position to tell you is that people - and I think this is true, not just in this case, but going back to some of the things we've heard from Navy pilots, people who we entrusted to do some really important things for our country - are saying some pretty incredible things that I think we have an obligation to take seriously and listen to. Because, you know, I don't think you go from being the commander of a naval fighting wing off an aircraft carrier to being some lunatic that's out to mislead the government. And there you have, you know, testimony from Navy pilots of things they've seen. So that's why this is something... You know, my biggest fear in all this, frankly - and I'm not ruling anything out, obviously - but my biggest fear is that some adversary has made a technological leap. That would be really bad news. And that we have been caught flat footed on it. So, we're taking it seriously, it's bipartisan, everyone's working on it. But look, this is a tough thing to dig into, there's a stigma associated with it, right? I mean, nobody wants to be known as the UFO guy but these are things that are important for us to understand. Khalil: I feel that sometimes when I asked you these questions, so, umm... Rubio: Yeah. No, I get it. No look, but I mean, stuff is flying. What is not disputed is that there are things flying over restricted airspace - sensitive, restricted airspace - in the United States, and they claim it's not ours. That alone is reason to be looking at this stuff. Khalil: He also claims that AARO is not being read in. That whatever this program is - allegedly - is keeping the people who are supposed to be dealing with it in the dark. It's not just about funding, it's about disclosure to AARO as well. Do you think that's realistic? Or, how problematic is that if that's accurate? Rubio: You know, it's very problematic if it's accurate. Because if that is accurate - and again, I'm not in a position yet to make that judgment - what you're basically saying is that within the government of the United States, there's a group of people who believe that they possess something that they don't need to share with anybody, including elected officials, who they view as temporary employees of the government. You know, in essence, some sort of an internal, military complex that's their own government and is accountable to no one. So it would be a huge problem if it's even partially true. So, look, I think AARO and its director, Dr. Kirkpatrick, from everything I've seen up to this point has, is trying to do the best they can to gather...it's a lot of information. We gave them a mandate to go back to the historical records on this. We will know, I think, in time - and I mean, not twenty years from now, but over the next couple of years - whether, in fact, enough information's being shared and whether the analysis is being done and whether there's any impediments. But I certainly think we are getting more information now and more people coming forward than at any time in the history of our country about this. And somewhere out there, I think we need to find answers because, at the end of the day, these are the kinds of...these activities should never be unsupervised. Anytime agencies of the federal government are unsupervised, and do whatever they want, it's generally not a good outcome for the country. Khalil: I'm wondering how much interaction you've had, on Senate Intel, with David Grusch himself, and potentially, how much interaction you all had with the people who do have firsthand knowledge? Have you talked to anybody who he says, "These are my sources, these are the guys that have actually seen firsthand, aircraft"? Have you talked to anybody? Rubio: And I'm not sure he's disclosed these individuals, at least not to us. And so, again, because it's a whistleblower process, not just him, but others, I will say, there are people that have come forward to share information with our committee over the last couple of years. I would imagine some of them are, potentially, some of the same people that perhaps [Grusch is] referring to. I wanna be very protective of these people. A lot of these people came to us even beforethese protections were in the law, for whistleblowers to come forward, and lot of them come [forward]... Khalil: Sorry, people who have had firsthand knowledge, who claim to have firsthand knowledge of seeing this type of thing? Rubio: Or have firsthand knowledge, or firsthand claims of certain things. Some are public figures, you know, and we've heard from them in the past. Others, you know, have not shared publicly. And so we're trying to gather as much of that information as we can, but... And the reason why I'm being cautious, I'm not trying to be evasive, but I am trying to be protective of these people. Some of these people still work in the government, and frankly, a lot of them are very fearful. Fearful of their jobs, fearful of their clearances, fearful of their career. And some, frankly, are fearful of harm coming to them and so I wanna be very, sort of, you know, respectful of that because I don't wanna discourage others from coming forward. Khalil: "Right. And I totally understand. I will never ask you to reveal a source to us. But, I'm just wondering, just so I can 100% clarify: You are saying that...the people who would be whistleblowers, because they would have firsthand knowledge of seeing these kinds of aircraft or they claim that they have seen, those are the category of people you've heard from? Rubio: We've heard from people that are both in the service of our government, and some who used to serve in the past, and some of whom are publicly out there saying these things, sort of saying to us what you've seen out there in the public record. Whether it's about Legacy programs, or about current events, and things that are going on at this moment. Again, we are trying...all of them have, in many cases, understanding of the different elements of this firsthand and they have heard some of the other pieces. And so, I think for us, it's really important to sort of just gather information and understand this. But I think the more we know, the better we are prepared to go down the right roads or on the right paths or ask the right questions. But we're still sort of in that phase where this is new to a lot of people. And there's still a lot of people that I think are starting to edge towards coming forward and we hear may be coming forward but are still trying to see how it plays out for the people that came forward first. Khalil: So that category of people, who have firsthand knowledge, who say they have actually seen these kinds of things, do you find many of them credible? Rubio: Well, I don't find them, either, not credible or credible, because we have no basis of... Understand that some of these claims are things that are beyond sort of the realm of what any of us has ever dealt with. What I think we owe 'em is just a mature, you know, understand and listening and trying to put all these pieces together and just sort of intake the information without any prejudgment or jumping to any conclusions in one direction or another. I will say, I find most of these people, at some point, or maybe even currently, have held very high clearances in high positions within our government. So, you start ask(ing)...you do ask yourself, like, 'What incentive would so many people with that kind of qualification - these are serious people - have to come forward and make something up?' And on the other hand, like I said, I mean, extraordinary claims, you know, it's something that requires a lot of work and to back up. And so, I don't know the answer to it. I think when you're in a fact-finding mission, you're trying not to prejudge anything, you're trying to take in information and you're trying not to rule anything out, or jump to any conclusions because, you know, this is new to everybody. Frankly, I mean, this is not what I thought I would be focused on when I ran for the U.S. Senate, you know? But here it is, and it's, I think, a serious issue. Khalil: Yeah, I understand that. Okay, I'm going to wrap up this topic just with one more question. And that is that...youhave co sponsored an amendment to the Intel Authorization Act, where you said, within six months, you want, "a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic unidentified anomalous phenomena material," to make that available to AARO within six months. Can you tell me about that amendment and just, the need to bring it up? Rubio: Yeah, and I mean, @SenGillibrand deserves a lot of credit. She's sort of been the one that's pursuing that and then we wanna be supportive of it. And I think the gist of it is: If, in fact, these claims that are out there are true, thatinformation needs to be provided to the Task Force that we set up to both protect whatever national security equities are in place, and at the same time, gain access to all of this. Now, if the answer that comes back is: "No such material exists," then obviously that goes par for the course because I think you've already seen some of the public statements to that effect. But, when it's in the law, career people, people that are in the service of our government, have to make a decision: Do I just basically ignore the law and the consequences that come with it? No one's ever asked these questions before, this has always been the realm of science fiction. So I think we're simply responding to some of the things that we've seen come out in the public record, and ensuring that we're doing everything we can to make sure that this entity we created called AARO actually has access to information or materials, if in fact they exist. Again, I can't tell you that they do or they don't. I don't know. I don't think anybody knows yet and that's probably the gist of all this is we're trying to find out the answer. ~~~End Rubio Interview~~~ Khalil: So Brian, not exactly saying yes or no that they're credible or not credible, but he said he doesn't see a reason for many of these people to fabricate these kinds of things, and says that they are serious people. And you just heard him: In high levels of the government, some of them even still working in those capacities. He did go on to say, we have to be cautious about this because we don't want to jump to any conclusion, one way or another. Many of these claims, he says, are fantastical, so you just have to stick to where the facts take you. Nonetheless, I think, big revelation tonight from Senator Rubio, and some pretty serious information there. Entin: Yeah, it's just remarkable that he is saying that other whistleblowers have come forward. And what you mentioned, I think, is what really makes this interesting, that these are people with firsthand accounts. Of course, when we had the exclusive with David Grusch, this was information - he's a high-level intelligence officer - but that he was hearing from other colleagues who he worked with. Now Rubio is saying that he is getting firsthand accounts from other high-level officials. I just wanna remind people what David Grusch told us three weeks ago when we had the worldwide exclusive here on NewsNation about this secret government program. I wanna play, again, for people, exactly what Grusch said. ~~~ @rosscoulthart: When you say crash retrieval, what do you mean? David Grusch: These are retrieving, non-human origin, technical vehicles, you know, call it spacecraft, if you will. Non-human, exotic-origin vehicles that have either landed or crashed. Ross Coulthart: We have spacecraft from another species? David Grusch: We do. ~~~ Entin: Okay, so Rubio, Joe, made clear now that he has heard from other whistleblowers with firsthand accounts. Did he say anything about David Grusch? Has he spoken to David Grusch? Did he say anything about Grusch's credibility? Khalil: What he said was that the Inspector General has found Grusch's claims to be at least worthy of more investigation, and that the Inspector General has found that Grusch is a credible person. Now, the Inspector General's job in this case is to assess that. If they are credible, then they are referred to Congress. And if they are not perceived to be credible, then they don't get to take that extra step. And what Senator Rubio said...he didn't confirm that he has heard directly from David Grusch, but what he said is that the Inspector General did refer him to Congress. So, that, I think, is an important admission in and of itself, there. And he did say, again, that a lot of the claims that he is hearing from firsthand witnesses, sort of track with what we're hearing from David Grusch. Entin: So interesting. And I knew when you told me that you were gonna get this interview tonight, Joe, that it was gonna be revealing, because we have been waiting to hear from Marco Rubio. But I did not expect him to say that they've gotten these firsthand accounts. I mean, just unbelievable stuff. Joe, thank you so much, we appreciate your reporting today. Did this just become way more real? That's the question. Is this shaping up to be the most credible and incredible cover-up claim to reach the public? I want to bring in @nickpopemod, he spent his career investigating UFOs for the British military. Nick, thank you so much for coming on. So you just heard this information. We're really learning this in real time, together. Joe just got that interview with Senator Rubio a couple of hours ago. Do you find this information to be a game changer? Nick Pope: Yes, absolutely. I think you said it right in your introduction to this, when you said that this was a bombshell. And, it is. Ever since NewsNation broke the story of David Grusch and his claims, three weeks ago, there's been a little bit of a whispering campaign going on, trying to portray him as a sort of disgruntled, former employee. Now, to find out other people are standing with him, speaking out, and verifying this information...people still serving. I mean, that is incredible. This is a huge story. Entin: Yeah, and Senator Rubio made clear that they want to protect these whistleblowers because many of them are, essentially, living in fear. And it's his job to keep it secret, to keep their identity secret, which makes perfect sense. But how do we move forward from here, Nick? I mean, if we wanna keep the identities secret? We know that the House is planning hearings coming up next month. What's next? How does this all play out? Pope: Well, I think the intelligence committees, both in the Senate and the House, have to drive this forward. And they also have to talk to the Armed Services Committee, who also are looking at the whole UFO issue. But let's be frank on this: Congress, I think, are furious about this, because, for years, they were told there wasn't even a program looking at this subject. Now they're being told, not only is there a program, maybe multiple programs, but it's been hidden from Congress, and Congress has been unable to carry out its lawful and constitutional oversight of this. So, I think Congressneeds to really be aggressive on this and push the Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community really, really hard, and protect these people, too, by the way. Entin: Do you think now is the moment, Nick, where we're going to see more whistleblowers come forward? I mean, it certainly seems like it's already happening, based on what Senator Rubio said. Pope: Yes, absolutely. I one-hundred percent predict that over the next few days and weeks, we will hear the names of other individuals who have not spoken out before. There's safety in numbers, I think. People are cautious about this. But once the first few speak out, I think others come forward and say, "You know what? Now is the time to speak out." And you do not even get in the room with people like Rubio and the staffers without passing muster, in terms of the vetting. So when the question from Joe was, "Are these people credible?" I don't think, as I say, that you even get through the door unless they've done their vetting, and found the people and the information credible. Entin: And look, I mean, I was just thinking this through as we've been covering the story the last couple of weeks. If they're not credible, that would mean that we have people in the highest levels of the intel community, in our government, with the highest level of secret clearance, that are either liars, or have just gone crazy. Pope: Yes, absolutely. Either way, this would be a big issue. But, you know, you can understand maybe the vetting process fails, and one or two people slip through the net? But by all accounts, I'm hearing that that maybe as many as two dozen people have have come forward. And when Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, who heads up the Pentagon's AARO office - that has the lead on this - when he last spoke to Congress, he said people were coming forward to him, too. So, I mean, it's incredible at the moment. You've got people coming to the DoD, you've got people coming to Congress, you've got people coming to the media, but all of them are telling a consistent story. You know, these rumors that have been around for decades, what they're saying is, "They're true." #ufotwitter #uaptwitter #ufos #ufo #uap #aliens

.@devindwyer: "Is it possible there's a secret program here that you just don't know about?" Jon Kosloski: "(laughs) Anything's possible." Full ABC News interview with Director of @DoD_AARO, Jon Kosloski. I think Dwyer did well. Making sure to include non-human intelligence in addition to ET gets him a gold star. Dwyer: "Can you say, categorically, that's there's no intact spacecraft or part of a spacecraft that the US government is holding?" Kosloski: "I have not been able to corroborate any of those claims." Dwyer: "Is it possible there's a secret program here that you just don't know about?" Jon Kosloski: "(laughs) Anything's possible." Seems like they cut off his answer. That happened at least one other time. Full transcript later. I don't like the laugh. Either... 1) Kosloski is lying. 2) AARO just doesn't have access to those programs or the full set of UAP data. 3) Those programs don't exist. I'm going with 2. My opinion.

Not true. He has been in contact with @RepEricBurlison . People that spread wrong info should be called out.

Q&A from The Age of Disclosure with @Dan_Farah and a number of participants. The film really ties together the story in a comprehensive way. For hardcore followers of this topic, there isn’t any “new” irrefutable evidence presented, however with 34 former USG officials, then there is a preponderance of evidence about a deeper context of all of the public facing testimony that has happened since the NYT article in 2017. In particular, Jay Stratton was able to provide key context about the behind-the-scenes of the UAP Task Force, Grusch testimony, and Eric Davis and Hal Puthoff also were able to share some new bits of their work with the DIA. Elizondo is the heart that also provides a strong narrative backbone, but the real new stars here some from Rubio and Rounds who provide real context that the language in the UAP Disclosure Act didn’t come out of nowhere. It also brilliantly weaves together lots of archival statements from other officials and former Presidents. The history of UFOlogy is fragmented and there is a lot of lore, and The Age of Disclosure ties it all together with some of the most authoritative and compelling evidence. It is the power of storytelling that brings a real emotional impact to these disparate facts. Also, this film is crossing the chasm from the innovators and early adopters who are credulous about this core UFO lore, and it brings all together within the context of a narrative is very digestible for mainstream audiences beyond the UFO true believers. They identify the behind-the-scenes dynamics shaping this story at the CIA, DoE, Air Force and defense contractors, and Farah says the new administration will be using this film as a part of their efforts. Definitely go check it out!

CONGRESS UFO UPDATE: WITNESS Q&As 1. On Nov. 13, 2024, two subcommittees of the Oversight Committee, U.S. House of Representatives, held a hearing titled, "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Exposing the Truth." The 4 witnesses later submitted written answers that I've obtained.

EXCLUSIVE: Rep. Luna’s UAP plan for new Task Force on Declassification of Federal Secrets “I'm hoping to set up a congressional delegation (aka, CODEL) to a friendly country that…has a program for disclosure that's already been set up,” @realannapaulina tells Ask a Pol. “Which, to my knowledge, does exist.” Ask a Pol post includes: Full video of press conference, Declassification Task Force’s first letters to federal agencies, press release announcing Task Force, etc. (no paywall) #ufox askapoluaps.com/p/exclusive-…

The House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, and its new Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets, today sent letters to the heads of the Defense and State departments, and to the Director of the CIA, requesting briefings on UAP-related documents by Feb. 18.